The problem isn't tail happiness, it's lack of stability...

Feb 24, 2015,11:44 AM
 

The overall mechanical grip the car has is just not high enough on the XKR and XKR-S.  


You can be taking a normal drive and pushing it in the corners would just be potentially dangerous (the car may go into a spin) in the XKR/XKR-S and at the same speed it wouldn't faze a BMW M3.  

It's not about throttle induced oversteer, it's just a poorly balanced car.  Reminds me of the first generation Lexus IS 300, you took a turn in that car and the rear felt light.  That car has approx. 200 horsepower, it's not an oversteer tire spinning car.  It was just a poorly balanced car with bad dynamics in turns.  

The XKR is also a bit odd, with three occupants in the car and no cargo, braking on slightly bumpy roads in downtown Monterey, California (30 mph braking to 3 mph crawl speed) the car's rear felt unstable and the rear tires were moving left and right (tail wagging).  I don't know what's wrong with the car, possibly poor brake distribution or the slightest unevenness in left/right weight distribution upsets the car.  I've never felt that from any car, and over the past three years I've been in rental cars 30-60 days a year, not even the Hyundai Elantra rental car had tail wagging under normal braking.  

I will say, the Jaguar XF, the one you don't like, is probably the best driving out of all the Jags.  Good steering (possibly by ZF), good transmission (by ZF), good engine (the V8 naturally aspirated model that was featured when the car debuted), but past the phosphorous blue lighting in the interior, the interior was all a plastic shell with "hang on trim" clipped onto the plastic base layer.  A really cheap modular LEGO block way of building a car's interior.  The plastic on the edge was also improperly trimmed, could've given me a papercut.  

No, there's something just not right about Jaguar.  I so wanted to like the Jaguar.  I so wanted to find a more interesting alternative to the ubiquitous Mercedes-Benz and BMW vehicles that's all over the place.  But sadly, at the end of the day...  Small car companies like Jaguar just do not have the money for R&D to create a excellent car.  Sure, I can get exclusivity and design with a Jaguar, but I can't get the safety, reliability, quality, and the driving feel that makes a great car great.  

But then again...  If you're leasing it, why not right?  It'll be reliable the first 3-4 years.  Oh wait, that's what Maserati Ghibli is for.  Great design, poor interior materials overall (not to mention the clashing smell from the seat to the dashboard) except for the nice leather on the seats.  Like the Fiat ABARTH with red leather seats; high quality leather worthy of being on a Poltrona Frau leather armchair, but huge 8 millimeter spaces between stitches, rushed construction on the seams, and the rest of the interior just doesn't equate to the leather on the seats.  

Actually, if I want to be critical, the Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG has an Alcantara (artificial suede) ceiling headliner and a high quality smooth, small grained, yet thick luxurious leather with an excellent smell and a buttery feel, hand rubbed wood trim, et al.  BUT the let down comes with the dashboard made of cheap injection molded vinyl that has a faux leather grainage that doesn't match any other part of the car.  Do people notice?  No, the average person doesn't even notice and if they did they wouldn't care.  But for the person who really understands and who has experienced - no, not merely experienced, who has lived their entire lives under the best circumstances would almost knowingly get a mental allergy to that material.  

Think the E55 is bad?  Try the Mercedes-Benz S550 with the standard leather interior (for the USA market) made from 2007-2013.  The whole interior was injection molded vinyl and the stitching on the perforated leather seats was done so badly that sometimes the holes in the stitching were within the perforations of the leather.  But Mercedes-Benz still sold them by the thousands to customers who don't appreciate nor understand true quality, and even if they did understand they didn't care.  

Oh, and how do people buy watches?  Brand recognition and purely aesthetic design usually.  Does the fact that many Cartier watches (nice watches by the way) come with generic ETA movements bother anybody?  Some people just get taken...  

What's worse?  To break the law out of ignorance or out of maliciousness?  "Officer, I didn't know it was the law that I have to walk my bicycle in the crosswalk, I thought crossing the street in a crosswalk meant I could cross it however I wanted."  Or to break the law when you knew it and just didn't care?  "Officer, I know I can't ride my bicycle in the crosswalk, but I didn't want to dismount and walk slowly across the crosswalk."  All police officers would say short-term they're both just as bad as the result ends in you being fined or sent to jail (results oriented mentality); but some police officers would say long-term ignorance is worse because you don't even have the conscious decision to follow the law if you completely don't know it.  


More posts: AMGBMWFiatGhibliJaguarLexusMaseratiMercedes-BenzS 550XKR-S

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An Opinion About Modern Jaguar Cars. Restaurant and car analogies within...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 24th, 2015-02:14
I'll call it my opinion. Not sure if I'm a full expert, so I won't say "expert opinion" but hopefully a valuable opinion. Jaguars are good cars, but like a one Michelin star restaurant, it's just that. A good restaurant. Two Michelin Stars equate to a goo... 

It's true the XKR-S is tail happy, with 550hp on the rear.

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 24th, 2015-08:43
The analogy is very appropriate. It will come to expectation and individual satisfaction. Many times, we are more forgiving because of what we put in, where we are. In a 2 to 3 star restaurant, the consumer expectation will be much higher, but sometimes w... 

The problem isn't tail happiness, it's lack of stability...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 24th, 2015-11:44
The overall mechanical grip the car has is just not high enough on the XKR and XKR-S. You can be taking a normal drive and pushing it in the corners would just be potentially dangerous (the car may go into a spin) in the XKR/XKR-S and at the same speed it... 

Funny world...time for Naoh's ark or Laughing Buddha to claim our sins?

 
 By: Clueless_Collector : February 24th, 2015-14:04
Human beings are such complex animals and there's always room for anyone, as in the Chinese saying, "Above everyone's head is a piece blue sky". Only time will tell, and only the best and strongest will survive...if I can live long enough to see it. Diffe... 

But I don't drive an...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 24th, 2015-16:40
But Raymond... I don't drive a 12 cylinder Aston on a daily basis. I drive a four door gas guzzler but it doesn't have an entirely handmade interior with stitched leather on nearly every surface. For style, the Jaguar is definitely a good looking car! But... 

You have to keep in mind that a Jaguar, even R is a GT, not a sports car.

 
 By: amanico : February 24th, 2015-11:31
It cannot behave like a Sportscar. You can drive fast for long trips, but you'd better avoid small and curved mountain roads. For that, you have the BMW M3... ;) Best, Amigo. Nicolas

But Mon Ami...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 24th, 2015-11:51
But Nico, the BMW M3/M4 I was referring to is also a GT car... Think about it this way. The BMW M3/M4 has two doors, seats four comfortably, and has a big boot for luggage. It is a true GT car, it's just not sold nor marketed as one. Need more proof? The ... 

Funny, I would not have classified the M3 as a GT.

 
 By: amanico : February 24th, 2015-11:55
It is more violent, less comfortable, in my book, than a Jaguar... A Jag with 300 HP is a maximum for me. Funny how we see things... Best, Nicolas

Let's say BMW 428i/435i?

 
 By: patrick_y : February 24th, 2015-11:59
Let's say the BMW 428i or 435i. M3/M4 may be a bit stiffly sprung. Not that the Jaguar isn't. The 428i is just as fast as the Jaguar XKR (almost as fast in the 0-100 kph sprint), bigger trunk, seats four more comfortably than the XKR, and drives/handles/b... 

Agreed on the 428 / 435. But I see the M3 in a different league.

 
 By: amanico : February 24th, 2015-12:01
Put a compressor in a M3 and you have 600 HP! :) But I have enough fun with an original E 36. Best, Nicolas

M3

 
 By: bimbeano : February 25th, 2015-16:12
I have a friend who owns a E46 M3 with the straight six .... pumping out 700 + :-) ... well it pumped out 700 + until it blew. He's now driving around in a Peugeot 206 while repairing the engine ... taking it towards 800 hp :-) .... you don't want to be h... 

No idea ...

 
 By: bimbeano : February 26th, 2015-10:56
But i know he has crashed bikes, cars, trucks ... :-)

700 HP?

 
 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2015-00:07
Is the reason why the engine and transmission are blowing up is probably because the car's components simply can't cope with the power? Keep in mind, the E46 M3 came with 333-343 horsepower in most countries. 700 would be double that.

Bear in mind ..

 
 By: bimbeano : February 27th, 2015-10:18
.. he made some minor adjustments ;-) Valves, Pistons, conrods, crankshaft, clutch just to name a few ... then there's the air-intake, compressor, exhaust, motormanagement ... we're probably at 25% here :-) Basically i think all that's left original is th... 

If he's a nutter...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2015-10:34
Filip, my friend, you're already on the extreme side. If someone on the extreme side calls someone else a nutter, I have no idea how crazy this guy is. But 700+ hp in an E46 BMW M3 is probably a good indication! How can you drive something with 0 wheels? ... 

In some extreme cases ...

 
 By: bimbeano : February 27th, 2015-14:19
.. one can choose the amount of wheels that will stay on the tarmac :-). With a bike in normal conditions you've got two wheels on the ground, most bikers can wheelie (not my cup of tea though) so they're riding on one wheel ... . Sometimes you go that fa... 

Right...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2015-16:41
After I saw what it meant to be driving with 3 wheels, I immediately knew what you meant with zero wheel driving. Another 20 seconds later, my suspicions were confirmed!

LOL

 
 By: bimbeano : February 27th, 2015-16:56
;-)

I could not agree more...

 
 By: Tonypatch : February 24th, 2015-12:38
...many thanks for the car/restaurant analogy. Long live the freedom of choice our modern world has to offer. I did Blumenthal once and will never go back (luckily someone else paid the bill). I prefer the Four Seasons Grill in Hamburg, the dining rooms (... 

Thank you for responding!

 
 By: patrick_y : February 24th, 2015-16:27
Thank you for responding to the strange post about cars and food. Do you travel to London a lot or live in London? Sometimes too many choices gets confusing too. For two years, I had the same thing for lunch nearly every day, a turkey club sandwich. It wa... 

My wife wanted a F-Type R Coupe

 
 By: JerryW : February 24th, 2015-19:06
She choose a car that was fully loaded and I mean fully loaded. I went to take a look and was shocked with one little thing. Do you see the issue it? A FAKE carbon fiber console. Why imitation? I would rather see just about anything else with options to u...  

The F Type is a nice car...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 24th, 2015-20:55
But it's not a true driver's car. Don't take any clover-leaf onramps too quickly, or else the rear tires may start to get loose. And definitely not for someone who knows what real carbon fiber looks like. What was Plan B? I have to say, at least Mercedes-... 

Interesting opinions and metaphors. I'm not sure I agree with all, but I do agree about

 
 By: ThomasM : February 25th, 2015-09:48
but I do agree with your conclusions about modern Jags - I want to love them, given their paper specs, beautiful lines (well, most; the new XJ is an abomination, in my humble opinion, even if a great use of space) and storied history. Along with new reput... 

We offer our love...

 
 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2015-00:57
We offer our love to Jaguar... But Jaguar doesn't have to take our love... The cars you listed have all been amazing vehicles, some of the most amazing vehicles to come out of Germany. Germany is a country where driving is taken extremely seriously and hi... 

I like the analogies ...

 
 By: bimbeano : February 25th, 2015-16:08
... kinda what i'm thinking too. In my own personal experience i've always found Jaguars to be cruisers .. not even true GT-cars :-) ... beautiful, distinctive (especially pre 2000 models) and fast enough (in a straight line). I have driven and experience... 

At least your Dom Perignon bottle has something in it!

 
 By: patrick_y : February 27th, 2015-00:34
Because my Dom Perignon bottle is empty! And if I were to refill it with something, it'd probably be beer at this point, because the only thing chilled and bubbly is the non-alcoholic beer in the house. Jaguars are not the most sporty. But THERE IS someth... 

Santé mon ami !!!! :-) [nt]

 
 By: bimbeano : February 27th, 2015-10:19